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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 72 post(s) |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
1434
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Posted - 2012.10.16 05:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hint part:
Read, understand and ask from yourself why did I reinvent the wheel.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Bountyhunting_Improvements_%28CSM%29
Warning part:
If bounty hunting goes live as suggested in devblog you will have $****$torm ahead (again).
Total fail of fail boat highlights part 1:
People are not supposed to get kill rights unless they actually get killed. Engaging someone and killing someone are 2 different things.
Total fail of fail boat highlights part 2:
People are not supposed to get any global criminal flags (or suspect flags as you put it) randomly and without warning just for the kicks. If bounty hunters have accepted contract and have the derived kill right that is well enough for bounty hunting feature. Leave the flagging to crime watch and actual in game events what take place when the fight is on.
End words:
I will not mention about this after this post. I tried to cure your Unified inventory project during development but failed miserably. Now I just say this once and look what comes out from the pipe. If it is junk I just quit EvE for another 6-12 months and wish you merry xmas and happy new year.
Nuff said.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
1437
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Posted - 2012.10.17 05:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
I just want to clarify my previous post and why I am so deeply against some parts of this system:
It is very bad idea to add any FFA triggers to hands of any player.
Much better approach would be to further iterate to who (all) you get kill rights when you get for example ganked or otherwise killed. Then trading those (maybe multible) kill rights forward to bounty hunters who then could possibly share them inside fleet they are flying in.
FFA button is very dirty workaround and should never end up to live server.
Also kill rights should be handed only from cases which cause concord intervention in hisec or death in lowsec. If I steal your candy you're not supposed to be able to kill me 25 days later for doing that.
CCP Tallest wrote:We are using the suspect flag for 2 reasons: One is to allow your fleet to help you with your revenge. Two is that we are trying to move away from single player to single player aggression flags, as you can see with the new crimewatch mechanics.
Using the criminal flag makes the whole system easier to understand. You do the crime, your victim gets a kill right. As for ransoming, it's still a criminal act, even if it is more merciful than podding.
...and this is not a reason. It is just bad excuse to use FFA button as dirty workaround to avoid workload from code which would allow kill rights to fleet members only.
You guys are going way overboard with this and wont even let people know who places the bounties. Talking about consequences is rather pointless if that is one way deal.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
1441
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Posted - 2012.10.17 10:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
More excuses to stick dirty FFA button to live server and not to code actual system which would limit kill rights to fleet.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
1442
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Posted - 2012.10.17 16:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Bounty hunting isn't a PUG. Making them fleet-only is no different from the FFA toggle crap you have going on now. Are you saying CCP no longer wants people in corporations made for specific goals? Please go on record with that.
Fleet option would be awesome, unfortunately there's some technical issues with that.
Having technical issues is not valid reason to go with some poor and half baked solution. Take the time to resolve the technical issues and release something you can be proud of instead of pissing people off again.
...in other words (just to repeat myself) this is one more poor excuse to stick dirty FFA button to live server and not to code actual system which would limit kill rights to fleet.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
1442
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Posted - 2012.10.17 16:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Bubanni wrote:[
...!!!!!!
Just make a limited engagement where everyone in fleet with the person who activates it can attack the target.... it is super stupid that you allow everyone in the area to shoot the target
We suggested it multiple times, its what you said you want also... so why don't you do it like that?!
As I said above, there are some technical hurdles for making this happen. If that can be solved, it would be a better solution. Note that this being a better solution doesn't make the Suspect flag option a bad solution, just not as good. The suspect flag is a very very bad solution... either you try to make the fleet thing work, or you make it only Limited Engagement between the target and the pilot who activates the kill right... The solution with this suspect flag would lead to bad gameplay Do note I live in 0.0 so I am only saying all this because I am concerned you lead the game in the wrong direction
Yep... suspect flag doesn't lead to any social activity. It leads to someone following targets around / and or sitting outside trade hubs and activating FFA flags for "lolmails" and "local grief". This is far from working bounty hunting mechanism and won't provide anything positive to those who actually would like to hunt bounties for profession like they were meant to..
You don't need to be rocket scientist to realize that the activity above will gather all the "opportunists" outside trade hubs / major gates waiting that people get FFA flag and the ganking starts. Fastest one get the bounty.
Fun? Social? Give me a break.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
1448
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Posted - 2012.10.18 21:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
The team is clearly so deeply committed to FFA flag and current solution that their replies start to sound just like the ones in early Unified Inventory feedback threads. We all know where this is going now so let it go. Let them enjoy the fallout. It seems that some devs always have to go thru this before they grow as persons to the level where they learn what is important and start to deliver stuff what they can be proud and respected of.
If you want to know how to make feature research go talk to mr Optimal and Arrow now. Now days they are experts what comes to the inventory project and actually deliver what people want and need instead of just doing what they think is the best without knowing the variables. Ask what went wrong with their initial approach and more importantly: would they do something different if they could start entire inventory project from scratch again.
Xmas update will clear big chunk of their reputation and make many people much happier again. Wouldn't it be fun if team responsible about bounty hunting would belong to this same category instead of doing all the same mistakes all over again.
CCP SoniClover wrote:Bubanni wrote:
...it makes of very annoyed that you guys seem so rock set on the target becoming suspect... so everyone can shoot him... there are so many better solutions, why won't you even listen to player suggestions about it...
The Suspect flag option is not set in stone, but at least right now the order of options is: limited engagement < corp engagement < suspect flag < fleet engagement. With the last one not being possible right now for technical reasons, we chose what we feel is the next best one (suspect flag).
This thread really shrinks down to this particular reply where one of your teams member practically says:
"Bounty hunting is broken. You've been asking fix for years. Now we give you new bounty hunting system which is still broken because of technical reasons.... but we still give it to you because it is new and shiny and you can live with new broken bounty system like before. To be completely honest it actually doesn't even make the bounty hunter happy, but surely causes more public ganking and grief outside gates and stations. Just like we were told. But hey! This almost works - it's the next best thing to bounty hunting."
There is no such thing as "next best"-solution if you are trying to fix something what is broken unless you want to create even more broken. Isn't that quite obvious already.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
1449
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Posted - 2012.10.18 22:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thing is... I've seen the bits they plan for iteration, but you can't really add anything to feature which is broken from the core. FFA flag is the primary core failure. Other aspects like how kill rights are handed and distributed can be fixed and tweaked rather easily in case they don't play out right. All in all they are not the mega failures which will stay unimplemented/unfixed forever or at least for extended periods of time.
FFA is the only fact which takes this project to same level with the inventory project. There was just one idea: one window. Everything was built on top of that and one way road to bad end product was set to stone. It was really hard to fix as the foundation was built to support only 1 window. Now these guys are building the foundation around FFA flag and that will be their stepping stone to this same road. It will be really hard to change later, all the iterations they plan will not fix it and at the point they realize this - tons of dev hours get flooded down to the drain before this mess is dealt with.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
1451
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Posted - 2012.10.18 23:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:
If only they'd done what CSM6 told them to do, i.e. make nullsec actually worth living in, then maybe players who are actually paying for playing this game (and try to have fun while doing so) wouldn't feel incentivized to go gank miners or haulers or whatever else in hisec instead because nullsec's all but dried up in this aspect.
Nah, wait, I'm actually telling CCP to buff null here. **** that noise, that's just crazytalk. Buff null, hah. And pigs'll fly.
Yea as long null sov system is something where you can keep systems without actually actively living and constantly maintaining them, null will remain mostly empty forever. However that is whole different issue :) I'm just trying to keep my eyes on major flaws I see on the features they are working at the moment and discuss about general directions when there is place and time for that.
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